This one’s about wine blogging, people – for those who don’t care, I’m sorry. For those who do care… I know this only applies to probably a tiny, tiny percentage of the wine blogging world (because most of you watching this are among the awesome), but I felt strongly that it needed to be said. I also hope that this tough love is taken in the spirit in which it was intended; that is, putting the community of wine blogging as a whole above ourselves personally, with the sincere wish that we all continue to strive to be awesome in our own unique ways!
Cheers!
I gotta say, I opened the file with a little trepidation, being a 'newbie' and all, but I really liked what you had to say. I did not get into blogging in the hopes of getting free wine. I already have more wine than I know what to do with. I got into blogging because I enjoy writing, I love wine, and I like to think I have interesting things to say. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm having fun. If I ever turn into the type of douchebag you describe (or any type of douchebag that I wasn't already), I hope someone slaps me around and lets me know that is not why I started blogging.
masi3v – Thanks. Believe me, I debated myself quite a bit about recording this, and even more so about posting it live… but given what I was hearing I thought it was necessary, because we need people like you blogging awesome about wine!
Thank you. We were recently asked to send samples of all our medium and high priced wines to a blogger.
We offered to get the fellow invitations to all close by trade tastings but replied that we were unable to provide such wines as we are Europe based, do not hold stock in the USA, etcetera. He became very angry with us, and somewhat threatening. You are very right, often it takes one bad apple who says that he or she is representing your community to tarnish the group.
Thanks, Becky – hopefully this plea for more community reaches those folks. We're not all like that!
Thanks for the tough love, Joe. I've only been doing my blog for a year, and have been wondering how the sample process works. Thanks for preempively de-douching me.
@jeffisrad – thanks; no harm intended in the preempt! :)
Must add "de-douching" to my vocabulary. Brilliant.
Great thoughts, and I think you're advice works for all blogging communities – not just wine ones. I love what you had to say about as a group you can be taken seriously and be effective, but as individuals you don't have as much power. A few bloggers in a specific community being douchey can make all the bloggers in that community be taken less seriously. This was the first thing I watched/read this morning. Good way to start off the day. Thanks.
@rshreeves – Thanks!
Joe,
In my view, a community isn't formed just by calling itself a community. A community is formed by a group that comes to a consensus over standards and rules–a governing principle.
A system that promotes freedom to do what you want to do produces people who do what they want to do. It's not just uphill to call them out, it's relatively futile.
Standards and certification have their place–even on the Internet.
Thomas – I don't disagree, but would say that wine blogging is already such a community by your definition. Those standards are organic, and take time to reach that consensus particularly among a group geographically dispersed and independently-minded, etc. The WBCs are a good example of that community trying to reach out and pull the connection web between them in a bit closer.
Is there a specific "standards" committee or functioning body connected to the WBC?
If not, there should be. If so, that's where this issue ought to be addressed. The fact that a single blogger feels it necessary to call out the douche bags makes it plain that there is no formal community.
There may be an "organic" set of standards, but if there is no formal method of certification or recognition then there is no method for calling out those who offend that can be taken seriously.
Thomas – the point is not that those things do not exist formally, it is that they do not exist formally *yet*. I would find it hard to believe that visible community members have not stood up to cry foul of behavior in other communities.
Hi Thomas:
Your definition of "community" is only one possible definition, and there are other less restrictive definitions which a "wine blogging community" would fit. It is a group of individuals with similar interests, who interact with each other. A simple definition of a community. Such a group does not have to come to a consensus on standards & rules. It does not require a governing principle.
The larger question though is whether there should be standards and rules for the wine blogging community, and I suspect that many would be unable to agree on any such matters, They value their freedom too greatly to want to be bound by any restrictions or rules. Those willing to accept such rules probably already self impose their own restrictions, such as through a code of ethics. For many, wine blogging remains a hobby and they don't see why a hobby would need rules and restrictions.
Maybe a segment of the wine blogging community could create a set of standards and rules for that segment. That might be the best that could happen under the circumstances.
Take care,
Richard
Good on you for posting this. There is absolutely no reason for a wine blogger to demand anything. Write well, don't be a douche, and you'll get more free stuff than you know what to do with (not that getting free stuff should be your goal.)
When my wife and I started our blog (which hopefully will come back to life in the near future) we had no intention of getting anything for free. We didn't even think it was possible. We posted to a website that we had a new wine blog and we wanted ideas for something to write about. We didn't even ask for samples. We ended up getting a TON of samples. We also posted on that site when we were planning a trip to Napa. We just asked for story/interview suggestions. We didn't ask for anything for free. We got all kinds of invitations to free tastings, free dinners, and even free hotel rooms. We had just started the blog and we were unsure if ethically, we should even accept any of it. We contacted wineries ahead of time to make tasting appointments, and we ended up with tours and interviews with winemakers.
Over the short life of our blog (hopefully it's not dead, just on hiatus) we were sent so many samples, that I felt bad about it. We're just a couple who started the blog for something fun to do in the little free time that we have. We couldn't keep up with the samples. Many went un-reviewed. In fact, we still have many of them in our basement. I still feel bad about it sometimes.
Thanks, Mike – as you can probably tell from the vid, I also have more wine than I will realistically ever review. And I do feel bad about it (but in my defense, I did not know most of it was coming! :). I do hope you bring the blog back!
nice blog joe, and I wouldn't limit it to the blogging community. "don't be a douchbag" is great advice for anyone walking into a tasting room.
just about every day I spend in the tasting room, somebody comes in with a blog or from a local paper that thinks they're robert parker…the irony is that if robert parker walked in, we wouldn't really care. however, if someone comes into the tasting room being nice and asking good questions, i'll often grab some barrel samples, or give a tour of the lab or the crush pad.
my point is that if you are nice, we'll treat you right. if you're a jerk, we don't care who you are.
gabe – thanks. Sage advice!
Aptly put, Joe. Something else I've heard rumblings about that you may want to address at some point: Media people – and not just bloggers, though they tend to be mentioned most often – who RSVP for a trade tasting, seminar or the like and then not only don't show up, don't notify the sponsors that they won't be there. I don't get it. I've been to a couple of sessions lately where the hosts have rented a good sized place, set out dozens of glasses, and opened and poured several bottles of wine, only to have half or so of the seats occupied. I chalk it up as another sign of the increasing inconsideration and sense of entitlement in our culture, but would be interested in your take. Cute daughter, by the way, but why didn't you introduce the dog?
Hey Mike – hope all is well! I have seen the same thing happen at tastings, by the way. I have had to cancel two recently, and in both cases only had Evite contact info. so used the “contact the host” options to indicate I could no longer make it. I tried, at least! :) I agree with you that it is rude to not attend with no notice to the hosts, because the folks holding those tastings are expending effort, money and time; not following up is rude. As for the dog – he was probably sleeping at the time, which is how he spends most of his hours! :)
I got into wine blogging for a love a wine and writing. A clear distinction needs to be made between bloggers who aspire to be journalists and bloggers who simply score wine to feed their own ego. The media is a critical component of any democracy and should never abuse it's power to influence. In light of this latest commentary by 1WineDude and the controversy surrounding Jay Miller I think we should all take a minute to reflect on the old saying, "Live by the sword, die by the sword."
@notebookwine – Amen!
Are those the only two choices though? I do not think I aspire to be a journalist, but I also do not think I 'score wine to feed my own ego'. Perhaps you are suggesting a continuum with those options at polar opposites? Or are you suggesting a dichotomy?
masi3v – I didn't take that statement as literally as you did, I certainly see a continuum there. I'm not a journalist by trade or by education, for example, but I like tho think I use some journalistic practices to inform and research what are my opinion pieces here on 1WD. Having said that, I'm also in a position where I am… forced is the wrong word… where I *have* to review wines because readers and friends on social media want me to do that (and they number enough that I really need to obey their wishes unless I have a GREAT reason not to do that).
It took you four years to hear about Bloggers Behaving Badly? Man, I won't venture to guess where your head has been. Sadly, we live in a society with an enormous sense of entitlement, and the Internet, with its various FakeBooks and Twitters and HaroldPinterests, promotes more than the usual amount of narcissism. All the ranting in the world won't stop that. I should know. Much of what you spoke of here, Joe, I satirized three or four years ago, though, admittedly, I have zero influence. But if you're lucky, my friend, you'll get the same results I did–the admiration of the right folks and the hatred of the Poodles.
But keep fighting the good fight.
Ron – Sage words, as always. WOOF!
I don't think no-show wine writers to a media tasting is anything new, but the difference today of so many more "invitees" makes it more of an impact. If an important writer dissed one tasting, they will still be invited to the next one, or the wine/wine maker brought personally to the writer.
Bottom line is that it is common courtesy to let someone know you can make a commitment. Sadly, not everyone has that decency in them.
EVO
EVO – Especially when you consider how easy it is to let them know (social media, email, phone…).
Way to go Joe (or should I say, Old Man of Blogging?). That is the exactly the way real communities form, with lots of its members slowly molding the standards and behaviors. And I know you well enough to know you are that dude who cares about doing it right. It's good to speak out on it now and then. On the other point, totally with Mike, we should've met the dog.
Thanks, Rick – and yeah, it's Old Man now :). And fine, I get it, more dog features…
I'm surprised nobody took a group of the Dude's points to a more specific place. Simply reviewing wines is boring, there has to be a story about the wines or a story about wine to expect to be read. Most of the samples he and others get are un-solicited and likely not worthy of review. Why all the fuss about samples then?
Want to try a winery's wine? Go visit and plunk down a couple bucks to taste it. Not only are you going to the source and where the potential story is, you are also supporting a local business, and a lot of small, family runs one's at that. Ask a lot of questions and be nice to the people you might. Take an interest in how and why they do what they do. If you like the wines, buy some. If you feel there is a story to be told that might be of interest to you and the winery talk to them about it. Just a review from a nobody isn't a story. Be respectful, do your homework and guess what? You might have something AND see some wine come your way. Not always, but I doubt you'll get blanked.
Otherwise do what you say you got started to do, blog about wine because you love it. That means you gotta buy some wine, but if you love it so much that shouldn't be much of an issue.
Jason
{ correct spellings and grammar! }
I'm surprised nobody took a group of the Dude's points to a more specific place. Simply reviewing wines is boring, there has to be a story about the wines or a story about wine to expect to be read. Most of the samples he and others get are un-solicited and likely not worthy of review. Why all the fuss about samples then?
Want to try a winery's wine? Go visit and plunk down a couple bucks to taste it. Not only are you going to the source and where the potential story is, you are also supporting a local business, and a lot of small, family run one's at that. Ask a lot of questions and be nice to the people you meet. Take an interest in how and why they do what they do. If you like the wines, buy some. If you feel there is a story to be told that might be of interest to you and the winery talk to them about it. Just a review from a nobody isn't a story. Be respectful, do your homework and guess what? You might have something AND see some wine come your way. Not always, but I doubt you'll get blanked.
Otherwise do what you say you got started to do, blog about wine because you love it. That means you gotta buy some wine, but if you love it so much that shouldn't be much of an issue.
Jason
Jason – good points. People do identify with the passion and the love, because we see so much that is fake and devoid of legitimacy these days. Ok, I sound old again…
At least use the word vintage instead old. Sounds cooler for a wine guy…
HA!!!
well said Jason. It's an unspoken rule here in the Willamette Valley that if you get a free "industry" tasting, you should buy some wine (usually with an industry discount). When we all support each other, we all succeed
Excellent! Being a leader in any field requires, at times, the calling out of what needs fixing in that industry
(no self policing in the medical and legal professions, false claims in marketing of health products, misrepresentation in real estate…)
The tone, the texture and the example demonstrated a true passion for your craft.
Bloggers are given the GIFT of wine in hopes of creating an interest. Abusing that gift, especially in these tougher economic times, will ruin it for everyone.
Wineries need two things to be better:
An honest evaluation of their wines, so they can make better wine.
Evangelists who spread the word in the vast sea of wine and encourage consumption.
Paraphrasing Branford Marsalis,
"You know what you like, but you only like what you know"
And good wine bloggers are charged with the mission of bring new and different and exciting wines to the mouths of the public who otherwise may have no knowledge of their existance.
NOT to undermine the industry by demanding and excessiveness
Thanks, Kenton. Well spoken (written)!
Crazy that wine bloggers are doing this. At Wineshout we've never even asked for a single bottle, or demanded a free tasting, and only accept what is offered to us. Sometimes that's a discount on wine after a tasting, sometimes they may waive a tasting fee, or whatever. Sometimes it's nothing, and that's perfectly fine because there's no expectation. This is about enjoying wine and spreading the word! Thanks for calling this out and making it a point of conversation, and let's hope it reins in some of the more audacious among us.
@wineshout – I know… Probably only relevant for a tine percentage of bloggers, but their actions impact us as well.
Maybe publicly outing these bloggers who do try to scam six-packs is in order? Shaming them in front of the community could send a powerful message to those who feel this kind of behavior is somehow ok. Also, it would warn all of us who interact with those bad apples that they in fact exist.
I thought you were going to touch on more topics besides sample-whores though, like the lack of transparency in blogging, bloggers regurgitating ideas instead of coming up with their own, lack of technical knowledge, etc.
Keep up the good work!
@UCBeau – Thanks. Those topics are true of traditional media and on-line, of course. And this video was already long enough! :)
I agree, it's very true of traditional print media. I sometimes wonder how some of those people got their jobs in the first place.
But I take your point, the video was long…though I enjoyed what you had to say. Just wish you'd quit apologizing so much! :)
@UCBeau – Thanks for that. I know… maybe I was Canadian in a previous life? :)
I thought of this as well, more from the standpoint that with all the wine bloggers out there that I would like to read (and not nearly the time to do it), being able to eliminate the jack rabbits (getting angry with Becky Wasserman?!? She's BECKY WASSERMAN for pete's sake) would save me time and diminish the offender's influence (perhaps). But that may be a slippery slope–even the smallest of cohorts can have a large impact.
Wine bloggers (some of them) have massive egos which feed into a sense of entitlement, as in "I'm writing about your wine so you should send me samples"..And while we know that attitude sucks and is detrimental to the community, it doesn't stop people.
@UCBeau – that might be true, but the ones with the most following rarely exhibit that attitude in my experience (which might just be one of the reasons why the earned a decent following!).
Right, there is a small minority who do that, thankfully. I know personally of a few bloggers with big numbers though that actively solicit samples from literally every source under the sun. It wouldn't be so bad if they were actually putting effort in to write about the wines though ;)
Ah, see, that is douchebaggy if there is no story. now, not every solicited wine might make a story mention, but I would only solicit for coverage I had planned.
Agreed, and I think soliciting wines FOR A STORY is perfectly legitimate, but when no story arises and the wine blogger in question (or bloggers) barely gives the wine a paragraph, well that's where I have a problem..So to circle back, maybe the greater lesson in this is that we bloggers might have to start to self-police a bit more?
UC – maybe, and I suppose this is my contribution to the self-policing. :)
"I thought you were going to touch on more topics besides sample-whores though, like the lack of transparency in blogging, bloggers regurgitating ideas instead of coming up with their own, lack of technical knowledge, etc."
UCbeau: You'll have to wait for the organic formation of the community to become a biodynamic formation ;)
Would that be on a root day or a flower day? Where's that horn full of shit? ;)
I couldn't agree with you more! I've been a wine blogger for 6 years and just recently began to work with PR firms and importers and they found me. The worst thing a blogger can do is enter a tasting room and "demand" product or comp tasting. If you find the wine your are tasting worthy of blogging, purchase the bottle. That is what I've done and can hold my head high. Bloggers need to show respect and passion. Just because you blog about wine there is no entitlement.
Debbie- Exactly. Now, I rarely have to buy wine anymore as you can tell form the vid, but I have never felt entitled to demanding free stuff, either. Those actions harm our budding community as a whole. cheers!
That is insane Joe! Like most of you I have had samples sent to me based on certain posts about a wine or on the sole volition of a winery for an honest opinion. I can't believe there are ANY (even if it is just a few) wine bloggers trying to take advantage like that… greedy scumbags if you ask me. Completely the opposite of what wine blogging, and the entire wine world, should be about.
Westchester Wine Guy – thanks. I do NOT think it is rampant, but the point is to call out it I guess before it gets rampant (god forbid). Cheers!
Joe,
First and foremost — holy shit is your daughter getting big. Ridiculous!
Okay next — wine bloggers acting like douchebags isn't anything new. You and I have had conversations about this many times — both in person and via the interwebs. Sadly, it's never going to go away. New people will come to the medium and think "hey, I can get me some free shit!" All we can hope for is that wineries and PR people learn some lessons and try to establish whether or not a blogger has a track record worthy of samples.
I can't think of any circumstance where I'd even CONSIDER asking for more than 2 bottles of any single wine to sample. If I'm doing an event or tasting, that's not something I'd expect samples for — that's a donation.
The only thing I don't fully agree with in this video is the idea that we, as bloggers, are only as strong as the overall community. Fact is, there are too many bloggers coming at it from too many angles and with so much varying motivation that I think it's impossible to think this way. Over time, it's become painfully obvious who the people are who take it seriously and are deserving of my respect. I don't expect that to be a very high percentage of the overall wine blogosphere.
That sounds kinda elitist, and that's not my intent. I just mean self-policing is going to be very difficult with such a splintered group. Then again, Wine Whore got run out of town, didn't he? ;)
And Joe, I'm VERY impressed by your pile of samples, stud. ;)
i agree with that. wine bloggers, like all wine writers, should be judged on the work they produce. Furthermore, we've had douchebags from all walks of life visit our winery. Maybe Mr. Dude can write a blog on proper tasting room etiquette in the future
gabe – MANY bloggers have taken up that gauntlet of TR etiquette. Maybe we need the bullet point list versions so they can be posted on wine cellar doors :). I shudder to think of some of the crazy shiz that you have seen!
Lenn – HA! The stack of boxes is bigger than I am, but then that isn’t too difficult a height to beat :). I heat what you are saying here and I agree with a lot of it, but even the best wine bloggers do not command the audience of the more established media in wine. Collectively we do, and so I thought it was worth saying my piece on the DBs – those of us who care about nurturing the community (I am including the serious ones like NYCR and the passionate consumers in that large group) need to probably make sure that those DBs remain on the fringes only.
Well said, old timer. While I don't think this clip will change old habits and bad practices, I do believe it's a good message for new bloggers or those considering starting a wine blog. Looking at my own experience, I started my blog in 2006; shortly after I caught the wine bug here in Virginia while [accidentally] bumping into the Monticello wine trail during a visit to Jefferson's home. Like most people, the intent of my blog was to document my experiences and learn more about wine. Call me crazy, but for well over two years I declined a number samples because I was blogging solely about my tasting room and wine shop experiences here in Virginia and many of the sample offers were from other regions. Nowadays, I'm just into the wonderful world of wine — I read about it, sip it, talk it, and learn something new [almost] everyday. Samples do come my way — even things I didn't agree to accept. That hasn't changed me or my habits though. I still visit local wine shops and tasting rooms and purchase wine on a weekly basis. I have requested wine for a few events (not for me personally) like DLW Colorado, but if I want a blogger (or anyone) to taste a Virginia wine I personally buy it for them and have the winery send it out. Like you said … be yourself, be genuine — your passion will shine through and books, gadgets, wine samples, etc. will come your way (probably more than you want). I have heard stories from local producers about bloggers pulling out business cards and expecting red carpet treatment and mass mailing producers with the same generic e-mail requesting samples. As a wine blogger, you really have to ask yourself — If your samples run dry would your passion run dry too? I wish producers would flag the demanding and/or rude types — but that's just my two natural corks. Keep up the good work old man! BTW, very cute kid! Cheers!
Dezel – thanks, my friend. You are a great example of how people can handle this stuff and still keep it genuine and real. As for the kid – all from her mother’s side, no doubt! :) Cheers!
I've never looked at wine blogging as a chance to get free wine. Nothing is free. If you get a bottle in the mail or whatever, it's because someone wants your opinion and writing is work. I don't blog about everything I get because it's my policy not to blog negatively. I also can't blog about everything I get because blogging doesn't pay my bills and I work full time as well as studying wine. It's like having three full-time jobs. I am bombarded by samples all the time. But I don't ask for them. But in a way, I'm promoting these wineries and giving them a lot of publicity for a small return. If they want me to do that, then great. But I never ask. Here's an example. I received an e-mail the other day on a wine varietal I haven't experienced much. They asked me if I'd like to try it. I said sure. A huge box arrived with four bottles of various wine. I didn't ask for that. But now I feel obligated to do something about it. I am not fully up to speed on the things you discussed in your video but I do believe that if you work hard, get your name out there, and establish a good relationship with wineries and PR companies, you won't have to beg or ask for anything. It'll just come to you. I compare it to paying your dues in the music industry. You gotta play a lot of small dives and bars to get discovered. I've been at this for years and stuff is finally happening. It'll happen for a lot of bloggers out there too if they play by the rules.
@cellarmistress – exactly. And I wouldn't feel obligated to do anything based on receiving samples!
Agree – you don't have to feel obligated, especially if you didn't ask. And kudos to you for working at it – I know how you feel about the three jobs. I feel the same way. I don't make any money from my blog but it's the "job" I love most.
Thanks, grapefriend!
Interesting piece on wine bloggers and I value your input, experience, and other bloggers as well.
As times change, new technology, platforms, the "social norms" or "rules" have yet to be established on what is acceptable and what is not. So much of what is happening in my view is like the wild west. Clearly anyone making demands is just being rude at the bare minimum. I do agree that in anything done collectively (like unions) always has a greater power and voice as opposed to many silos.
I am a wine blogger…..fellow old timer, and new to the blogging community. I like to think I'm slightly outside of what many others are doing (tell me if you think different) and I would love input from you and anyone on their view of what I am doing.
I have never requested a sample in just over a year of blogging. Blogging is not my mainstay, of what I do, but I do enjoy it. I do not have anything on my site with "sample policy" or even an address. I do get a handful of sample that I am glad to work with.
I promote wine tourism and wine tasting rooms on my site as the main focus. I spend far more time on my wine videos than I do my blog…..maybe I'm a video blogger.
One thing I do and here is where I would love your feedback is when visiting tasting rooms that have a web url, address, phone, google pin, and soon to be photos + posted on my site, I do ask them if they do anything for industry when they request tasting fees. As my site is like YELP meets Zagat on steroids for tasting rooms, making an appointment would essentially blow it. In a very few instances I was told no or discounted tasting. I am always polite and professional making zero demands with a quick reach for my wallet.
Side note – I was intrigued by the response from Steven Kent and did respond to his post…..so I guess now it could be said that I have now requested one sample…..or does that count?
@awanderingwino – What you’re describing is totally reasonable I think and certainly not anywhere near the type of stuff that I was getting complaints about regarding the behavior of some wine bloggers out there. You nailed the point in your comment, making demands is being rude, and that type of rudeness tarnishes the perception of our community even if only a tiny, tiny amount of DBs are doing it. Cheers!
Agree with a ton of comments here. I'm new to wine blogging but started my career as a magazine writer. Even then you need to have some internal policing for basic ethics. It's nice to get samples, but at this point my NYC apartment can't even handle more :) I do solicit samples only when I have actual stories I'd like them for, but don't even want extras sent. My blog is far more for the average person and Im probably not as involved in the industry as most of you all, but I will say that almost everyone I've had contact with has been great and seem like good people. Many of them on this thread haha and cool examples to follow. Cheers!
Call them out by name, homey! Call them out!
I've been on vacation so I missed this. Just wanted to say that I think your message is vital, and yes, Ron banged this drum years ago, but it's still an issue. If the prevailing ethos becomes "only douche bloggers demand XYZ," then we'll have made great progress. We're not there yet.
Thanks, Evan – I've so far not given up the names, even after drinks! :)
I didn't know people did that. Wow. BUT, I love the video. Cute kid! AND awesome basement! If you need help drinking it….haha.
Dusty – I do!!!!